This week, Sam welcomed back Justin Mares, the co-founder of the massively successful bone broth company Kettle & Fire (recently surpassing $100M ARR). Having “quit tech” years ago to dive into the health and wellness space, Justin brought a wealth of insights on current trends, business building, and some potentially controversial health philosophies.

They discussed the booming pet health market, the opportunities in bringing transparency to the food system (Justin’s brother’s new venture, Light Labs), the nuances of health trends like organic food and functional medicine, and Justin shared his somewhat unconventional takes on skincare, sunscreen, and even supplements like creatine.

Here are the detailed key insights and takeaways:

1. Health Trends: From Humans to Pets (& Back Again)

• Lagging Pet Health: Justin identifies a huge macro trend: health practices popular in humans (addressing seed oils, chronic disease, inflammation) tend to lag by a few years in the pet space.
• Kibble is Trash: Argues that conventional kibble, often full of processed ingredients and fillers, is actively making dogs sick, mirroring the human chronic disease crisis. One in four dogs now gets cancer.
• Opportunity: Huge potential in applying human health principles (clean ingredients, water filtration, targeted supplements) to pet products. Mentioned Kevin Rose’s investment in a longevity drug trial for dogs (Rapamycin).
• Beyond Food: Thinks beyond just food – clean water filters for dogs, dog saunas/cold plunges (maybe too far?), supplements, better kennel materials, etc.

2. Light Labs: Transparency in the Food Supply Chain

• The Problem: Consumers increasingly care about sourcing and avoiding toxins (glyphosate, phthalates, heavy metals), but lack visibility into what’s actually in their food beyond basic nutrition facts. Lab testing is expensive and opaque.
• Justin’s Brother’s Venture (Light Labs): Creating a modern lab testing company for consumer brands (like Kettle & Fire) to test for a wider range of contaminants (pesticides, plastics, etc.) and push those results publicly, often via QR codes.
• The Goal: Build consumer awareness and create an incentive for brands to clean up their supply chains by making transparency a market advantage. Compete with legacy labs (like Eurofins) by being more modern, transparent, and consumer-focused.

3. Controversial Health Takes & Nuances:

• Nutritional Labels: Believes standard nutritional labels are often inaccurate (FDA allows +/- 10-20% variance, sometimes much higher). Also highlights how people underestimate calorie/macro content when eyeballing food.
• Organic Food: While better than conventional (fewer pesticides), it’s not perfect. Wind/water can still contaminate organic sections from nearby conventional farms. It’s about reducing load, not achieving purity.
• Supplements (Creatine): Quit taking creatine because he felt it made him bloated (“like a gorilla”) and didn’t like the water retention, despite its known benefits. Underscores personal variance.
• Skincare: Believes most skincare is a “scam” and marginally effective, except for a few things like certain peptides and potentially Retinol A. Suggests focusing on gut health (probiotics, bone broth) for better skin from the inside out. Thinks a topical + gut health combined approach is a major opportunity.
• Sunscreen: Thinks most chemical sunscreens are carcinogenic (citing banned ingredients in the EU still allowed in the US). Prefers physical blockers like non-nano zinc oxide for targeted use during long sun exposure, but generally avoids sunscreen, focusing instead on building sun tolerance gradually.
• Honey/Fruit Diet: Currently experimenting with a diet focused on fruit and honey before noon, then high protein later. Curious about the effects, acknowledging it runs counter to low-sugar trends. Dates and butter is another favorite “snack.”

4. Building Businesses & Founder Mindset:

• **0 to 10M) primary capital raised, focusing on capital efficiency.
• Unicorn Status Anticlimax: Shared Imad Akhund’s (Mercury CEO) sentiment that reaching a billion-dollar valuation felt surprisingly anticlimactic after the long 15-year journey. The process matters more than the milestone.
• Joe Montana’s Helmet: Imad’s only unicorn “trophy” was a helmet from investor Joe Montana – a fun anecdote about the symbols of success.
• Going “All In”: Believes success requires full commitment. Half-measures or side-gigs rarely lead to significant breakthroughs. Recounted quitting his job with little money to pursue his first (failed) startup because the idea of building something was more compelling than the safety net. This “forceful grind” pays dividends even if the specific venture fails.
• Asymmetric Bets: Views starting a business as an asymmetric opportunity – the potential upside (fulfillment, impact, wealth) far outweighs the quantifiable downside (lost salary).
• Breaking the Rules: Success often comes from being the exception and ignoring conventional wisdom. Understand the rules (like understanding compliance in banking, as Mercury did), but know why and when to intentionally break them or forge a new path. Don’t just follow the herd.

5. Business Ideas & Brainstorming:

• AI Opportunities:
  • Niche Education: AI agents for specific, high-stakes test prep (SAT, Bar exam) where people will pay for results. One-on-one tutoring is highly effective; AI can replicate this patience and personalization.
  • AI SDRs/Customer Support: Companies like 11x and Decagon showing insane growth by automating sales and support functions at lower costs.
  • AI Twin: The idea of an AI version of a CEO or employee that absorbs all internal knowledge (Slack, docs, CRM) to provide insights, answer questions, or even act as a coach.
• Space Tech: Believes it’s hitting an inflection point due to cheaper launch costs (SpaceX) and microsatellite platforms. Sees huge potential beyond the current hype cycles.
• Defense Tech: A growing area due to geopolitical shifts and the rise of autonomous systems.

Final Thought:

Justin Mares offers a refreshing perspective, combining deep thinking on health and wellness trends with battle-tested founder insights. His journey with Kettle & Fire demonstrates the power of identifying a real need and building a capital-efficient business. His focus on foundational health (gut, toxins, whole foods) and his willingness to explore unconventional ideas (like the honey diet or questioning sunscreen norms) make for a thought-provoking conversation about optimizing both business and personal well-being.

Find Justin Mares’ newsletter at TheFeed.com. Check out Kettle & Fire bone broth and his new venture TrueMed (using HSA/FSA for healthy food/supplements).

Listen to the full episode here: [Link to Episode]

Until next time,
The Podcast Notes Team